“My cronies are out of order, I’m all out of dynamite and my blade is made of metal. If you don’t come quietly, I may need to write a strongly worded letter..”
-Roxy may have a few minor spells
-Presty still has her fireballs, but not much else
-Stabs probably still has her weight in daggers, if she can get free
-Maddie is either in need of a cure light wounds spell very soon, or a raise dead spell
-Rusty can neutralize Grinner’s armor and sword, but he’s strong enough that Roxy and Presty would be in serious trouble in an unarmed fight (Granted, they might be able to overwhelm him with sheer numbers, but it wouldn’t be an easy fight)
Of course, if the party can release cube, well, then Grinner’s in trouble.
This assumes Grinner would let Rusty pull that off. I think Grinner’s way too clever for such antics. He’d just punt Rusty over the edge. Even if he lost his weapon, Stabs is the only real threat, and if Rusty’s occupied eating swords instead of magnets…
Heroes never die out of frame, and paladins are ridiculously hard to kill. Until you see their faces with X’s for eyes, don’t count them out …
Stabs has been sitting this battle out for far too long. Grinner isn’t holding a hostage anymore, so one touch from Rusty, that won’t be a problem anymore …
Time for the heroes to turn this battle around … 🙂
Allow me to reply with a retort, from Grinner’s point of view:
Mimic: unless he suddenly remembers to transform into something more dangerous, kick out leg to fling into lava, or shank with knife (after the initial bite it doesn’t seem like there is any pain to throw off his aim).
Perkins: Command golem to entrap (I don’t see why the golem is in a amorphous pile, it has taken practically no damage, and golems are tenacious and utterly fearless opponents, not going to give up unless destroyed)
Stabbs: currently trapped and immobilized, move swiftly to prevent any others from freeing her. Even if she is freed, will be unarmed and this not a physical threat.
Roxy: Must be on critically low HP (even with a minor heal) and unarmed, easily finishable with knife. Does not need to be kept alive, and can be killed.
Rusty: Potentially occupied with Barnum, but even if not, could be easily grappled and thrown into the lava. May cost armor/knife to take out, so focus on last.
In short, all targets could be (hypothetically) killed/ incapacitated with moderate effort, some injury is likely but all PC’s have drastically drained heath/ magic slots, while Grinner is got to have at least 50% HP (his only injuries thus far are the slash across the face and the impact with the wall). He could tank a lot of any remaining spells without problem.
Not to mention that Grinner has Slobber who will be up in minutes, as well as a communication device with which to summon reinforcements.
No doubt the heroes will triumph, but at the very least they are being confronted with a villain who is formidable, dangerous and smart. And all this coming from a Gnoll too, I’m so proud.
I actually have an answer for the Cotton Candy Golem-it’s not a golem. It’s been a while, so here’s the relevant comic- http://rustyandco.com/comic/level-7-41/ . Golems take ages to make, while Grinner just used some kind of powder to animate the cotton candy. It seems more like an animated object than an actual golem…which probably means that, despite its massive grapple bonus, it doesn’t actually have that much HP. (A large-size Animated Object has 52 HP, which TNT could certainly reduce to 0. Especially if it was ruled to be especially vulnerable to fire.)
Mimics can exude a substance that makes them extraordinarily sticky, in order to trap adventurers that confuse them for objects and attempt to touch them. Mimic’s landed an attack and has a hold on Grinner already. All Mimic needs to do is glue, then hang on and smack Grinner every round – Grinner would need to kill Mimic (and Mimic has at least 7d8+21 maximum HP) to get free. Further, he would also have to kill Mimic in a single hit – otherwise he risks (Reflex save DC16 to avoid) getting his only remaining weapon stuck to Mimic’s body. If it does get stuck, it’ll take a DC16 Strength check to pry it free again – a check he’ll have to make *while grappled by Mimic*.
A gnoll with no class levels has 2d8+12 HP. I assume Grinner has some levels in Fighter, but taking 1d8+6 HP/round from Mimic’s slam attacks will take its toll after a couple rounds, especially if Grinner loses his weapon to Mimic’s adhesive.
Mimic’s actually being pretty smart here, assuming this is intentional and he knows what he’s doing. Grinner looks like he doesn’t realize just how bad this situation can get. Bare minimum? Mimic’s bought time for the rest of the party to disentangle themselves and come help. Best-case scenario? Mimic could kill Grinner himself.
You make a good and well researched/ explained point, if Mimic can remember that he is actually a badass with abilities this could get interesting. But I would also like to put forward a theory that could re-tip the balance:
Grinner is either a type of undead or intelligent golem.
After all, who would have raised Grinner? His Gnoll tribe? Destroyed, and any who did live would lack the money/ access to a cleric to do it. The Ithillids? Makes sense, but their dialogue suggest they are hiring him, and why would they hire someone they have control over? Anti-Madeline? She strikes me as too evil to raise someone, and I don’t think Blackguards can raise the dead.
Ergo, my best guess is Calamitus. Despite his less than serious approach to evil he appears to be a competent spellcaster, and he has beef with the party that he would want dealt with. He may also be a undead himself, or even ad Lich. This also plays into the trope that Gnolls are often used by powerful dark wizards/ lords as basic troops.
So, is a guy like Calamitus, needing a new minion, going to raise a guy back to mortal life? Seven Hells no! He is going to stitch him back up, and work some mojo to take a Gnoll corpse and turn it into a super-powered, higher CR, stronger, tougher, more intelligent, more controllable Golem/ Undead (feel free to guess which is which, I’m going to guess Golem as Maddie had no abnormal ‘super-evil’ comment on Grinner’s presence, as you might expect a Paladin to do. (There are no doubt a multitude or Constructs/ Undead that are intelligent and aware I’m not going to trawl through several hundred pages to find them, but they exist. After all, The Order of the Stick is doing something similar currently)
Do I have evidence? A little, no doubt more may show up as time goes on: From the time he shows up (end of chapter 5) to now (2 chapters later, unknown amount of time passed, but its gotta be at least a few days/ weeks), Grinner’s extensive amount of scars have not healed up. If he were raised as standard, the scars would have been healed (from the description of the Raise Dead spell: “While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds….”) and similarly if a more powerful spell were used, there would be no damage, as the body would have been magically reconstructed. Grinner’s body is still scarred because it wasn’t raised in the normal way, and can’t heal normally.
In addition, in this chapter Roxy uses a whistle to incapacitate Slobber due to his Gnoll hearing. But Grinner is totally unaffected. Why should this be? He’s been brought back to life, everything should be working. No, instead it is his new found immunity to many things that affect ‘biologicals’, courtesy of the new Undead/ or Construct type! Why did the Shout spell affect him then you may ask? Well its a magic spell that does damage, as opposed to a real world object, so he was still affected by it.
So, if Grinner is indeed ’empowered’ we can expect that he is WAY more physically powerful than before, in both stats and other abilities/ resistances/ immunities. He would have more HP, higher defenses, and significant natural weapons (using the blade still because it is either more powerful than before, or just out of preference). This would help explain his ability to take a few licks from Maddie and keep on kicking, and the fact that he could go toe to toe with said paladin. It might also explain why he finished her off with the dynamite instead of continuing with melee (as a Paladin could be extra dangerous to undead at close range).
In summary, I think this explains why Grinner has had a different look since his return, and shows that even if Mimic brings his mimic-game, Grinner could also have a lot more power to unleash.
Ok have to throw this out there. Doesn’t matter to me what goes down from here the look of WTF?!?!?!?!?! that Grinner gave Mimic makes it all worth it lol. Plus bad guys lose. It’s just the way it goes baby.
Easy kill. A. Shift to Dire Lamprey. B. Glue self to leg. C. Chow down! If it doesn’t kill Grinner, it will weaken him from blood loss and shock. And it’ll be so much fun.
“Mimic Shape (Ex)
A mimic can assume the general shape of any object that fills roughly 150 cubic feet (5 feet by 5 feet by 6 feet), such as a massive chest, a stout bed, or a wide door frame. The creature cannot substantially alter its size, though. A mimic’s body is hard and has a rough texture, no matter what appearance it might present.”
Wow Mimic went old school mimic!!!! All he needs is to slap him with a pseudopod or two. You know to soften him up for an epic rap battle, or to feed him to Cube feet first.
Hmmm, what could Mimic become while attached to Grinner’s leg? On the edge of my seat for the next exciting episode! Glad Maddie’s not in the lava and I’m not counting her out by a long shot.
Grinner says Maddie is dead; that doesn’t mean it’s true. Nor, of course, is death irreversable. Maddie will probably just make puppy-dog eyes at the doorman of Mt. Celestia and be awarded a free Raise to go help her friends.
If I’m remembering a certain set of prophecies (sic) correctly, Presti still has one special trick up her sleeve. Go for the jugular, Miss Perkins! Everyone else has done what Zar spoke of, so it’s your turn to shine.
Presti’s clue was more properly, “go for the juggler,” who was lending tangible support to his ally’s illusions by throwing balls full of alchemist’s fire and whatnot at appropriate times and places. Sorry.
Actually, she already did go for the (juggler) jugular. Puns ahoy!
I believe all prophecies are already fulfilled: Rusty ate the lead ball, Prestige attacked the juggling derro, Stabs bribed the other derro, Roxanne used Shout on Grinner, and Madeline was defeated.
For some reason I keep thinking Maddie will come back due to a deus ex machina and will wipe the floor with grinner before intentionally tossing him into the lava.
Kicking Mimic loose may not be so easy. Mimic has two powers by SRD that I don’t believe we’ve ever seen in-comic – the ability to create psuedopods to clobber with, and an adhesion ability.
Also, Mimic is supposed to way around 4000 lbs. I know, I know, RPG physics and all that….
Grinner may be right about them being out of spells and tricks, but the dossier did miss out new information, like the rhino-bazooka. Should Rusty free Stabs and what she has with her, Grinner may yet regret standing in position where a straight line can be drawn between launcher, him, and a lake-of-lava. He’s shown himself to be capable, but that’s not the same as having the inertia to beat a speeding pachyderm.
Hopefully the advice to Maddie that she could lean “little from victory but much from defeat” wasn’t a pun about Boot Cut, and now she’s playing dead to learn more about Grinner’s client.
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“My cronies are out of order, I’m all out of dynamite and my blade is made of metal. If you don’t come quietly, I may need to write a strongly worded letter..”
Hmmm… What assets does the team still have;
-Roxy may have a few minor spells
-Presty still has her fireballs, but not much else
-Stabs probably still has her weight in daggers, if she can get free
-Maddie is either in need of a cure light wounds spell very soon, or a raise dead spell
-Rusty can neutralize Grinner’s armor and sword, but he’s strong enough that Roxy and Presty would be in serious trouble in an unarmed fight (Granted, they might be able to overwhelm him with sheer numbers, but it wouldn’t be an easy fight)
Of course, if the party can release cube, well, then Grinner’s in trouble.
Rusty could eat that big magnet, then Stabbs could get into the action again.
This assumes Grinner would let Rusty pull that off. I think Grinner’s way too clever for such antics. He’d just punt Rusty over the edge. Even if he lost his weapon, Stabs is the only real threat, and if Rusty’s occupied eating swords instead of magnets…
To be clear, I was trying to respond to the OP on that.
Mimics are STICKY. It ain’t that easy to punt a mimic.
How exactly is Grinner supposed to stop Rusty from freeing Stabs? He’s like fifty feet away, while Rusty is right next to her.
Heroes never die out of frame, and paladins are ridiculously hard to kill. Until you see their faces with X’s for eyes, don’t count them out …
Stabs has been sitting this battle out for far too long. Grinner isn’t holding a hostage anymore, so one touch from Rusty, that won’t be a problem anymore …
Time for the heroes to turn this battle around … 🙂
Allow me to reply with a retort, from Grinner’s point of view:
Mimic: unless he suddenly remembers to transform into something more dangerous, kick out leg to fling into lava, or shank with knife (after the initial bite it doesn’t seem like there is any pain to throw off his aim).
Perkins: Command golem to entrap (I don’t see why the golem is in a amorphous pile, it has taken practically no damage, and golems are tenacious and utterly fearless opponents, not going to give up unless destroyed)
Stabbs: currently trapped and immobilized, move swiftly to prevent any others from freeing her. Even if she is freed, will be unarmed and this not a physical threat.
Roxy: Must be on critically low HP (even with a minor heal) and unarmed, easily finishable with knife. Does not need to be kept alive, and can be killed.
Rusty: Potentially occupied with Barnum, but even if not, could be easily grappled and thrown into the lava. May cost armor/knife to take out, so focus on last.
In short, all targets could be (hypothetically) killed/ incapacitated with moderate effort, some injury is likely but all PC’s have drastically drained heath/ magic slots, while Grinner is got to have at least 50% HP (his only injuries thus far are the slash across the face and the impact with the wall). He could tank a lot of any remaining spells without problem.
Not to mention that Grinner has Slobber who will be up in minutes, as well as a communication device with which to summon reinforcements.
No doubt the heroes will triumph, but at the very least they are being confronted with a villain who is formidable, dangerous and smart. And all this coming from a Gnoll too, I’m so proud.
I actually have an answer for the Cotton Candy Golem-it’s not a golem. It’s been a while, so here’s the relevant comic- http://rustyandco.com/comic/level-7-41/ . Golems take ages to make, while Grinner just used some kind of powder to animate the cotton candy. It seems more like an animated object than an actual golem…which probably means that, despite its massive grapple bonus, it doesn’t actually have that much HP. (A large-size Animated Object has 52 HP, which TNT could certainly reduce to 0. Especially if it was ruled to be especially vulnerable to fire.)
You’re forgetting something important.
Mimic glue.
Mimics can exude a substance that makes them extraordinarily sticky, in order to trap adventurers that confuse them for objects and attempt to touch them. Mimic’s landed an attack and has a hold on Grinner already. All Mimic needs to do is glue, then hang on and smack Grinner every round – Grinner would need to kill Mimic (and Mimic has at least 7d8+21 maximum HP) to get free. Further, he would also have to kill Mimic in a single hit – otherwise he risks (Reflex save DC16 to avoid) getting his only remaining weapon stuck to Mimic’s body. If it does get stuck, it’ll take a DC16 Strength check to pry it free again – a check he’ll have to make *while grappled by Mimic*.
A gnoll with no class levels has 2d8+12 HP. I assume Grinner has some levels in Fighter, but taking 1d8+6 HP/round from Mimic’s slam attacks will take its toll after a couple rounds, especially if Grinner loses his weapon to Mimic’s adhesive.
Mimic’s actually being pretty smart here, assuming this is intentional and he knows what he’s doing. Grinner looks like he doesn’t realize just how bad this situation can get. Bare minimum? Mimic’s bought time for the rest of the party to disentangle themselves and come help. Best-case scenario? Mimic could kill Grinner himself.
You make a good and well researched/ explained point, if Mimic can remember that he is actually a badass with abilities this could get interesting. But I would also like to put forward a theory that could re-tip the balance:
Grinner is either a type of undead or intelligent golem.
After all, who would have raised Grinner? His Gnoll tribe? Destroyed, and any who did live would lack the money/ access to a cleric to do it. The Ithillids? Makes sense, but their dialogue suggest they are hiring him, and why would they hire someone they have control over? Anti-Madeline? She strikes me as too evil to raise someone, and I don’t think Blackguards can raise the dead.
Ergo, my best guess is Calamitus. Despite his less than serious approach to evil he appears to be a competent spellcaster, and he has beef with the party that he would want dealt with. He may also be a undead himself, or even ad Lich. This also plays into the trope that Gnolls are often used by powerful dark wizards/ lords as basic troops.
So, is a guy like Calamitus, needing a new minion, going to raise a guy back to mortal life? Seven Hells no! He is going to stitch him back up, and work some mojo to take a Gnoll corpse and turn it into a super-powered, higher CR, stronger, tougher, more intelligent, more controllable Golem/ Undead (feel free to guess which is which, I’m going to guess Golem as Maddie had no abnormal ‘super-evil’ comment on Grinner’s presence, as you might expect a Paladin to do. (There are no doubt a multitude or Constructs/ Undead that are intelligent and aware I’m not going to trawl through several hundred pages to find them, but they exist. After all, The Order of the Stick is doing something similar currently)
Do I have evidence? A little, no doubt more may show up as time goes on: From the time he shows up (end of chapter 5) to now (2 chapters later, unknown amount of time passed, but its gotta be at least a few days/ weeks), Grinner’s extensive amount of scars have not healed up. If he were raised as standard, the scars would have been healed (from the description of the Raise Dead spell: “While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds….”) and similarly if a more powerful spell were used, there would be no damage, as the body would have been magically reconstructed. Grinner’s body is still scarred because it wasn’t raised in the normal way, and can’t heal normally.
In addition, in this chapter Roxy uses a whistle to incapacitate Slobber due to his Gnoll hearing. But Grinner is totally unaffected. Why should this be? He’s been brought back to life, everything should be working. No, instead it is his new found immunity to many things that affect ‘biologicals’, courtesy of the new Undead/ or Construct type! Why did the Shout spell affect him then you may ask? Well its a magic spell that does damage, as opposed to a real world object, so he was still affected by it.
So, if Grinner is indeed ’empowered’ we can expect that he is WAY more physically powerful than before, in both stats and other abilities/ resistances/ immunities. He would have more HP, higher defenses, and significant natural weapons (using the blade still because it is either more powerful than before, or just out of preference). This would help explain his ability to take a few licks from Maddie and keep on kicking, and the fact that he could go toe to toe with said paladin. It might also explain why he finished her off with the dynamite instead of continuing with melee (as a Paladin could be extra dangerous to undead at close range).
In summary, I think this explains why Grinner has had a different look since his return, and shows that even if Mimic brings his mimic-game, Grinner could also have a lot more power to unleash.
that is true for usual mimic, size M or G.
Mimic is visibly size P
Stabs is “unarmed and harmless”? Are you high? She’s carrying her own weight in knives! Why do you think she was stuck to that magnet to begin with?
Several of my characters would argue that Fireballs are all you need.
Ok have to throw this out there. Doesn’t matter to me what goes down from here the look of WTF?!?!?!?!?! that Grinner gave Mimic makes it all worth it lol. Plus bad guys lose. It’s just the way it goes baby.
I must say you are one funny…… Fellow.
WOOT!! GO MIMIC!!
Let’s hear it for Mimic!
A. E. Pessimal would be proud.
Mimic: definite City Watch material.
Easy kill. A. Shift to Dire Lamprey. B. Glue self to leg. C. Chow down! If it doesn’t kill Grinner, it will weaken him from blood loss and shock. And it’ll be so much fun.
Mimic can do that? I thought he could only do furniture?
“Mimic Shape (Ex)
A mimic can assume the general shape of any object that fills roughly 150 cubic feet (5 feet by 5 feet by 6 feet), such as a massive chest, a stout bed, or a wide door frame. The creature cannot substantially alter its size, though. A mimic’s body is hard and has a rough texture, no matter what appearance it might present.”
In other words: “Yes, Mimics can only do objects, not creatures”
Wow Mimic went old school mimic!!!! All he needs is to slap him with a pseudopod or two. You know to soften him up for an epic rap battle, or to feed him to Cube feet first.
Wonder if Mimic still has that level in Beholder…
Either way, KICK HIS ASS MIMIC!
This!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/D%26DMimic.JPG/200px-D%26DMimic.JPG
He said kick his ass”, not “punch him in the face.”
At any rate, we know Grinner is going to fail for one undeniable reason: the author can’t use the octopus mafia anymore. 🙁
Hmmm, what could Mimic become while attached to Grinner’s leg? On the edge of my seat for the next exciting episode! Glad Maddie’s not in the lava and I’m not counting her out by a long shot.
I’d say a closed beartrap would be good, or ankle manacles would seriously limit Grinner
GO MIMIC!
YAY Mimic is doing something. It may not be much, but Mimic is doing something!!
If Maddie is DEAD dead than this is my response to Grinner:
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/80/803f1a0db2a57b833a0049b53a886ec95b046e5c8eafe715c36f0c32183d9f65.jpg
How merciful of you.
To quote from Stephen King’s “The Stand”:
“…there are worse things than Death…
…there are teeth…”
If teeth qualify as such, I’m sure a lot of elderly people would be eager for “a fate worse than death”.
Grinner says Maddie is dead; that doesn’t mean it’s true. Nor, of course, is death irreversable. Maddie will probably just make puppy-dog eyes at the doorman of Mt. Celestia and be awarded a free Raise to go help her friends.
If I’m remembering a certain set of prophecies (sic) correctly, Presti still has one special trick up her sleeve. Go for the jugular, Miss Perkins! Everyone else has done what Zar spoke of, so it’s your turn to shine.
Presti’s clue was more properly, “go for the juggler,” who was lending tangible support to his ally’s illusions by throwing balls full of alchemist’s fire and whatnot at appropriate times and places. Sorry.
Actually, she already did go for the (juggler) jugular. Puns ahoy!
I believe all prophecies are already fulfilled: Rusty ate the lead ball, Prestige attacked the juggling derro, Stabs bribed the other derro, Roxanne used Shout on Grinner, and Madeline was defeated.
Why “sic”? “Prophecies” is correct. “Prophecy” is a noun and “prophesy” is a verb.
Remember the healing potion Prestie hid up her arm? Dynamite in fantasy rpgs is seldom very high in damage.
That was a sleeping potion, and was used on the pug.
I don’t buy that Maddie is dead, just knocked out.
Way to go Mimic. Though the next time you might want to remember to pick a form with sharp teeth (like a bear trap).
Rusty, titular hero of the story, is standing right next to the big metal magnet in panel three, and looking VERY HAPPY.
Stabs may be standing tall quite soon. Sword and armour may be eaten later.
He looks more scared than happy.
For some reason I keep thinking Maddie will come back due to a deus ex machina and will wipe the floor with grinner before intentionally tossing him into the lava.
Naaaaa! that would be cruel and unusual punishment (lousy paladin’s code) so the lava’s out unless he falls in by himself.
(at least it’s not as bad as this oath: http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/05/11/episode-028-ouch/)
The nuklearpower archive appears to be broken! But here’s a video version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPNqzFslIEk
Kicking Mimic loose may not be so easy. Mimic has two powers by SRD that I don’t believe we’ve ever seen in-comic – the ability to create psuedopods to clobber with, and an adhesion ability.
Also, Mimic is supposed to way around 4000 lbs. I know, I know, RPG physics and all that….
4000lb! It’s no wonder YT didn’t want him to cross her
Well, there’s Derek the Cleric to cast a Raise Dead or Resurrection on Maddie.
I almost wish Mimic was disguised as a mailbox for extra comedy points.
Grinner may be right about them being out of spells and tricks, but the dossier did miss out new information, like the rhino-bazooka. Should Rusty free Stabs and what she has with her, Grinner may yet regret standing in position where a straight line can be drawn between launcher, him, and a lake-of-lava. He’s shown himself to be capable, but that’s not the same as having the inertia to beat a speeding pachyderm.
I hope Mimic managed to shape shift super sharp teeth to give himself a bonus to that bite attack.
Nice to see Mimic finally do something. Very sad about Maddie.
Hopefully the advice to Maddie that she could lean “little from victory but much from defeat” wasn’t a pun about Boot Cut, and now she’s playing dead to learn more about Grinner’s client.
Bite me, it’s fun!
She can’t be dead.. She can’t be dead, She can’t be dead…
DEREK THE CLERIC! DO YOUR MOTHER-EFFING WORK, AND SAVE YOUR GIRL!
Too bad Mimic has never seen a Giant Blender…